1 Topic by jlklein

  • jlklein
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Topic: Cobranet to TDIF or ADAT converter?

Hi folks,
Does anyone know of a Cobranet bridge that outputs straight to ADAT or TDIF?

I manage a MediaMatrix (NION-based) system at work, so when our staff at church where I volunteer as Tech Director requested audio distribution around the facility, I started working on putting an ebay-sourced MediaMatrix system in, based around a NION N3 and various CAB units. Then I thought, why not also use Cobranet to run a digital snake for our Sanctuary, since our current volunteer-installed analog snake (before my time) is a Telco DS3 line with 66 Punchdown Blocks at each end for connection to the mic cables/jacks...and I'd really like to replace it.

My plan is to put CAB8i's at the stage end and I'd originally thought to put CAB16o's at the booth end, however, my audio mixing system is digital so it'd be better to stay digital from the CAB8i's all the way through. My audio console for our Sanctuary is a computer-based Live Audio Workstation (LAW), specifically RML Labs' Software Audio Console. I use Mark of the Unicorn (MOTU) 2408 MkIII external PC audio interfaces to ingest the audio into the mixing computer.

Currently I have mic preamps with A/D converters to receive analog mic inputs from the stage via XLR cables, and then digitize the audio and send it to the MOTU 2408 via ADAT to get to the mixing system. However, if I can find the proper coverter, I can bypass the preamps entirely and connect Cobranet straight to the MOTU interfaces via its ADAT or TDIF digital inputs.

To do this, I need to find a Cobranet audio bridge that outputs either ADAT or TDIF, however, so far I've only found the 16 channel CAB16d and the 32 channel Yamaha NHB32C, both of which only output AES. Tascam does make an 8 channel AES to TDIF converter, but I would need 6 total, which would eat up a bit of rack space (I need 48 channels total from the stage).

So, anyone seen one of these beasts?

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff Klein, DMC-E
AV Project Manager/DoD
Technical Director/Faith Baptist Church
Baltimore, Maryland

2 Reply by JoshM

  • JoshM
  • JoshM
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Re: Cobranet to TDIF or ADAT converter?

Hi Jeff,

An even better and simpler solution for your situation would be to take the CobraNet straight into your SAC server using CobraNet cards.

Unfortuantely this is not a cheap solution and would probably be difficult to find on ebay and the like used. However, the cards work really well. They do have some recommended channels for purchase on their website.

Have a look here:
AudioScience - CobraNet Sound Cards

Josh Millward
Burnt Orange Studios

JoshM's Website

3 Reply by jlklein

  • jlklein
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Re: Cobranet to TDIF or ADAT converter?

Hi Josh,
I've looked at those, but am still evaluating whether you can use multiple cards, and if they are ASIO driver compatible, as that is what the live audio and companion multitrack recording software I have uses. I would need 3 to 4 cards since they max out at 16x16, which also might mean I need a PC upgrade to fit them...and that would be a x2 as I also have a backup PC outfitted with the MOTU PCI card so even if the main PC blows up, all I have to do is move the 4 Audiowire (Firewire) cables connecting my preamp rack to the PCIe card from one PC to the other and go.

Basically I have two options it seems:
1) Go with my original idea of putting CAB16o's in the booth to interface with my current A/D mic preamps that output ADAT to the MOTU system.
2) Use the CAB16d's and get AES to TDIF/ADAT converters to interface with the MOTUs and get rid of my existing A/D preamps altogether.

Both options add latency over what I have now with the addition of the CAB8i's at the stage.
Option 1 adds additional CAB16o latency, so I would need to evaluate the total added latency of the 8i's and 16o's.
Option 2 adds additional rack space, as I'd likely need two 8 channel converters between each CAB16d and MOTU interface, however, there should be no latency with a digital to digital format conversion. Additionally, I would be removing the existing latency from my current A/D preamps in the booth, which may actually cancel out the added CAB8i latency.

Time to go read some specs...

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff Klein, DMC-E
AV Project Manager/DoD
Technical Director/Faith Baptist Church
Baltimore, Maryland

4 Reply by JoshM

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  • Recording Engineer at Burnt Orange Studio
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Re: Cobranet to TDIF or ADAT converter?

Hi Jeff,

With the AudioScience cards, you can run up to four cards in one PC for up to 64x64 channels in and out, respectively. This will also be your lowest latency situation, and simplest as you will not have to route the audio through all kinds of additional things. Fewer things to go wrong is always a better situation when you have a complex system. I believe they do also provide and ASIO driver set for the CobraNet cards. I would call them and ask them about it.

With this system, you could have audio going into both your computers at the same time, all the time, via CobraNet. You can essentially have a digital split happening in your network. This way if your main mix PC fails for some reason, you are already up and running on your backup PC. You may have to re-patch the output side of your mixer, we have not covered how you are doing system drive.

Personally, I am all about simplifying things and making it as robust as possible. Simply putting everything directly on a robust network and getting rid of USB/FireWire/etc... things has shown to be a more reliable way to get things done in my experience.

Have fun and good luck!
Josh

Josh Millward
Burnt Orange Studios

JoshM's Website

5 Reply by jlklein

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Re: Cobranet to TDIF or ADAT converter?

Hi Josh,
The Audio Science cards just, well, aren't in the cards right now at $1600 a pop wink
I'm currently leaning towards the Yamaha NHB32C as it's twice as many AES outputs per 1U unit as the 16d and I can get one for $450.
I noticed that Nware has a number of included third party hardware, where do I find these devices for non-Peavey hardware, like the Yamaha, Audio Science, etc hardware?

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff Klein, DMC-E
AV Project Manager/DoD
Technical Director/Faith Baptist Church
Baltimore, Maryland

6 Reply by JoshM

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Re: Cobranet to TDIF or ADAT converter?

Hi Jeff,

I didn't say the ASI cards were cheap. I just said that they are the best solution. :-D Which they are. ;-)

That Yamaha NHB32C looks like a handy little unit! I'm pretty surprised that the price is that low!

From the perspective of the NION, any CobraNet output device is just bundles that the NION is transmitting. There is no native direct control for the Yamaha or AudioScience hardware that we have been discussing in this thread.

However, most CobraNet devices utilize SNMP when used with CobraNet Discovery (Disco) and can have their configurations read and set using SNMP.

If you want to use SNMP management to handle these devices natively within NWare, you can do that by using an nTouch 180 or an nControl (you can not do this with just a NION), if you have either of these in your system. You would need to enable SNMP on those devices and use the SNMP Components in the Device list to exert control over the hardware through the network. You can find the SNMP Components here:
Devices > nControl Devices > SNMP Components

You can use Agent Discovery to find the IP address of your device on the network based on a few different options.
Then you can pass the IP address to the CobraNet Bundle Assign device to configure the bundle information.
You can also use the Host Information and System Information to track the health of your devices on the network.

Otherwise, if you do not want to use SNMP, you can just use Disco or other software from ASI or Yamaha to configure the bundle I/O in those devices. You should always use NWare to configure the bundle I/O for your NION. Each manufacturer is usually pretty good about providing software to allow you to configure this stuff, and in most cases you can also use Disco if you want to.

Josh Millward
Burnt Orange Studios

JoshM's Website

7 Reply by jlklein

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Re: Cobranet to TDIF or ADAT converter?

Thanks, Josh. It does come with some configuration software and can be accessed with Disco as well. It's pretty much just going to act like a standalone converter, so there's really not much "active control" that I need, and I don't have an nTouch or nControl for that matter. I was just wondered if it was available as a "hardware" item in NWare...you know, to keep all the parts represented in the NWare diagramming.

What determines whether there is a 3rd Party entry available in NWare for the various vendors? Does it ever get updated and are there locations to download new ones (from Peavey or otherwise)?

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff Klein, DMC-E
AV Project Manager/DoD
Technical Director/Faith Baptist Church
Baltimore, Maryland

8 Reply by jlklein

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Re: Cobranet to TDIF or ADAT converter?

I had another thought line on this...I do have Dante's Virtual Sound Card on my PC, which is compatible with SAC as far as I can tell, and can do 64x64. Are there any Cobranet to Dante converters?

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff Klein, DMC-E
AV Project Manager/DoD
Technical Director/Faith Baptist Church
Baltimore, Maryland