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Topic: XDAB fun!!!

I have a couple of questions about the XDAB. I am looking through a stack of "Remote Logs" from a 7 NION system that is interconnected with the XDAB. I see the following entries scattered throughout the Remote Logs in the various units and I am trying to pin down exactly what they mean. I am certain that this dealer has installation issues, I am trying to sort out if the issues are related to the XDAB or LAN installations.

1. piond/xdab/leader    communication failure
This error happens at the same time on all 7 nodes. Would this be an indicator of a LAN communication problem, or an XDAB communication problem?

2. piond/mute    muted: xdab loss of clock signal
This error happens at the same time on all 7 nodes. LAN issue or XDAB issue?

3. piond/xdab/leader    poll returned false: '(node name)'
This will happen on a single node. When this happens, the XDAB will reconfigure.

4. piond/xdab/manager    OUT port data error (OUT may be replaced by IN)
This will happen on a single node. When this happens, the XDAB will reconfigure.

5. piond/xdab/manager    OUT port loss of link error (OUT may be replaced by IN)
This will happen on a single node. When this happens, the XDAB will reconfigure.

As I mentioned above, I know this dealer has issues with their installation. I am suspecting inadequate XDAB cables as a starting point. However, I am unsure as to how solid the control LAN is. There is a Crestron system talking to the first node via the control LAN.

Many thanks for any help that can be provided in clarifying these Remote Log messages.

-Josh

Josh Millward
Burnt Orange Studios

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Re: XDAB fun!!!

Hi Josh, my guess is that you are reaching limits with 7 boxes in a rack! Just the long cable to close the loop could be a problem...

Most of what you are seeing is XDAB failing and recovering,.. so I do suspect a cable issue,, 1.2.6 has made the XDAB resync less prone to instability but it of course can't solve a cable problem...

Unless you have a strong feeling that the switch these boxes is of the Bad kind, I don't think it can really be much of an issue, the XDAB control traffic is fairly lightweight, and doesn't even require very tight timing...

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Re: XDAB fun!!!

7 units is fine.  These are good questions, I'll add a task to get these documented.  One thing they should do is set one unit to have higher priority to be XDAB master.  This tends to stabilize things.

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Re: XDAB fun!!!

Thanks for the responses guys!

I know they have these units connected 1=>2=>3=>4=>5=>6=>7=>1 with the 12" cables we supplied connecting all the units except that last link from 7=>1, which is a 2 to 3 meter cable that they also purchased from us. I have their project file and I will check to see that one unit is set to a higher XDAB Master priority.

Josh Millward
Burnt Orange Studios

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Re: XDAB fun!!!

cwa wrote:

7 units is fine.

How about 12? What are the practical limits here?

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Re: XDAB fun!!!

There are several 15 NioNode projects that we have worked closely with.  I have heard that there is at least one 17 node project in place, but this one didn’t need our support, so I don't know anything about this one.  However, in our lab (and at InfoComm), we have created projects of 20 and 25 nodes.  But that was as an experiment, and we weren't actually pushing much audio through the project and the XDAB.  So if you want practical, fully tested, pushing tons of audio, then 15 is what is has been fully vetted.

How big do you need it to be?  15 NioNodes would provide 1,440 of analog ins and outs (using all of the NioNodes slots and CobraNet).  And if you were to use digital (AES I/O) and CobraNet, you could have up to 1,920.  The 15 NioNode projects mentioned above are using mostly CobraNet with limited analog inputs, and had specific needs that required a single large project.  But those were still close to 960 channels of I/O.

Personally, I'm a fan of the "less is more" theory.  Smaller projects, and sharing audio using CobraNet or Dante, limits the single point of failure, like a downed network switch or NioNode.  A single project would also make it difficult to schedule preventive maintenance and upgrade time.  And the programming and commissioning of a several smaller, more manageable projects is always going to be easier than a single huge project.

There are now several massive systems (using multiple smaller projects), that with a few clicks of a mouse, can share audio anywhere and everywhere across those multiple smaller projects.  Project Linker is the key, and can make a those small projects that make up a large system, seem like a single project to the end user.

Make it intuitive, never leave them guessing.

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Re: XDAB fun!!!

Has there been any further documentation on these issues?
An installation is experiencing audio glitches related to
"piond/xdab/manager    OUT port data error (OUT may be replaced by IN)".
The end user has found his way to this post, but unfortunately there wasn't a resolution.

"The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place."
                                                                                        - George Bernard Shaw

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Re: XDAB fun!!!

Is this a project in Beijing ? I know there is a project installed with 7 NIONs in Beijing having the problem like this .

Life is rough so you gotta be tough.
                                      -Johnny Cash
  smile

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Re: XDAB fun!!!

No, my issue is not in Beijing.

"The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place."
                                                                                        - George Bernard Shaw

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Re: XDAB fun!!!

Hi Phil,

I'm going to ask the obvious question... they have ruled out the above suggestions? I.e. the XDAB routing is done in such a way as to avoid long cables and the XDAB priorities have been set right? What version of firmware? How many NION's? Is there any other audio networking and if so what is the clocking master where?

Best Regards,

Rachael